(gentle music) (gentle music continues) (gentle music ends) (bright music) (bright music continues) - Last week, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, conducted operations in Central Illinois that resulted in the arrests of 21 people.

There's a lot of confusion and misinformation right now about ICE's authority and the constitutional rights of immigrants.

Here to talk about these issues is Charlotte Alvarez.

She's the executive director of the Immigration Project.

And Erin Lamboi, the Rapid Response Team Leader.

Good to see you both, thanks for coming in.

- Thank you.

- Charlotte, let's kind of remind people what the Immigration Project is, what it does, where it is, and who it helps.

- So the Immigration Project secures access to justice alongside our immigrant neighbors all across Central and Southern Illinois.

We help thousands of immigrants every year with both social services and legal services.

Our goal is really to help welcome our immigrant community members and help remove those barriers to success so that they can secure their rights and be, you know, welcomed into our communities all across Central and Southern Illinois.

- So a lot of these people come to you guys for help when it comes to just even not only serious issues concerning the law, but just acclimating to a new environment, I guess.

- Correct, so our legal team helps people become citizens or help with their family members.

So if someone marries a US citizen and then they want to adjust their legal status, then they can come to us, or survivors of domestic violence or other crimes, then they can get some legal protections for their immigration status based on that so we can help them out.

People seeking asylum or unaccompanied children come to our services or people with deportation defense, so a wide range of immigration legal services.

And then on our social services side, we have mental health counseling and support, housing support, people who need interpretation and translation, people who are just like, "Hey, I'm an immigrant and I don't know quite what other services around me might be welcoming or accepting for me."

Then we can help connect them to other resources in the community and we wanna help be that bridge so that immigrants can be connected to other resources in the community.

- And you're not just helping people from, you know, Central, South America.

You're helping people from all over the world, right?

- Oh, right, last year we had people from 64 different countries and over 14 different languages.

I think one of the misperceptions we get a lot is that we hear immigrants and we think undocumented or we think Latinos.

But really across Illinois we have a vibrant mix of immigrant communities.

We have people from all across the world living in Central Illinois with a whole range of histories and immigration statuses.

We have people who have been here for decades, we have people from all across the world, and that's what makes really Central Illinois a great place to live and we see people from all that spectrum.

- You mentioned the term undocumented and I wanna go over some of these terms because there's terms that you use, terms that ICE uses, terms that other people use.

What is your definition of an undocumented person?

- Mm-hmm, someone is undocumented if they don't have legal status in the United States or if they had a status and maybe lost it or they're in transition of status.

We don't use the term illegal because that's just not accurate.

If someone is undocumented, then that's a civil offense.

It's not a criminal offense.

And so they could have had an immigration status, let's say they came in on a visa and that visa expired, or they have applied for a status and that's pending or in process.

And so it can affect and be a whole range of different people who are in process or transition.

And so we don't use illegal 'cause that doesn't capture and it's just not... As a lawyer, I'm really concerned with accurate terminology.

And so undocumented captures more accurately people who are without papers, without status.

- We're gonna talk about ICE in just a minute.

ICE, which is a division of Homeland Security.

They use the term illegal alien, and what they're saying is an illegal alien you're saying is undocumented, is that right?

- I'm saying the term illegal alien doesn't really exist.

Illegal kind of references the idea of someone has committed a crime, but being undocumented is not a criminal offense and it creates a misperception of something that doesn't, it's just not accurate.

So it's just a term that shouldn't be used.

- So just to clarify, you're the lawyer, I'm not.

If someone comes across the border say from Mexico into the US without going through the proper channels, you're saying that's not illegal?

- So if someone crosses the border and they are doing that in order to seek asylum, then they're actually following the process in order to seek asylum.

So there isn't actually a different process to seek asylum other than crossing the border and then asking for asylum.

So that's the process.

And there are certain criminal offenses tied to immigration.

For example, if someone has repeat crossings.

But that singular act often is not criminal.

And someone who, for example, has been on a visa and then overstayed that visa might be undocumented or out of status, but never committed a crime at all.

So the sweeping term of illegal alien that ICE often uses is just not accurate.

And they often sweep in, for example, when they said they detained 21 illegal aliens.

Sometimes they often put in that category people who have applied for asylum or are in status or had a status that was lost or taken away or in question that have committed no criminal act at all.

So it's just not an accurate term.

- Okay.

We'll get back to that in a minute.

Erin, I wanna talk about the Rapid Response Team a little bit.

You're brand new to this.

- Yes, I am.

- At least at this organization.

Tell us what the Rapid Response Team does and how it helps people.

And I know you were busy last week with these ICE arrests that happened.

- Yes, so what the Rapid Response Team does, it is a network and our job is basically to confirm ICE sightings and also to confirm when there's not ICE sightings.

But our number one job and rule and objective is that we're sharing accurate information.

So a lot of times on social media there's a, you know, fear created and we are not trying to incite fear or to create any more damage or trauma to people that they're already going through.

So our number one goal is that, also it's for education.

So we're giving them Know Your Rights cards and information to help them to be able to advocate for themselves.

- So, speaking of social media, which is great and terrible all at the same time.

You know, I was seeing posts last week about ICE in different communities and different pictures of potential ICE agents.

And I guess what is your purpose of telling people, "Hey, ICE is in Springfield at the corner of Maine and 14th"?

- I think, well, the number one thing is that we're not only confirming when they are there, we're confirming when it's a false alarm too.

So the first thing is that we're trying to make sure that our communities are getting the truth and getting the right information, first of all.

And then the second reason that we're doing that is so that we can provide the help and legal services and social services that we do provide through the Immigration Project.

So through that, you know, through our Rapid Response Team, we are able to, when they are confirmed, be able to get there and work with those people who may or may not have been detained.

- I also wanna add.

As we've seen when ICE operates, often in Chicago and also nationwide, ICE has a history of having, you know, heavy use of force and often indiscriminate use of force in our communities.

And so they present a danger to not just immigrants, but people that ICE might perceive as a threat around them.

So there is a safety risk for their presence.

And so I think it's important for people to know when they are around.

So we are seeing fear not just by undocumented individuals for ICE's presence, but individuals who might be a target by ICE's presence, people who might be perceived by ICE as potential immigrants.

Anyone who might appear to be an immigrant by ICE could be a target for those around them and might want to know when ICE is present to avoid that area to not be potentially targeted.

We've seen ICE kill individuals in communities across the nation, so they might want to know and avoid that area for their own safety.

We have serious, serious concerns about the level of training and the level of supervision and the level of oversight and accountability for those forces that ICE is deploying in our communities, and so we want everyone to know when they're present so that they can take the proper safety precautions.

- So last week it was reported that 10 people were detained by ICE.

And again, these terms, detained, arrested.

ICE uses the term arrested, but three in Peoria, three in Bloomington, four in Springfield, and I wanna read you something from the Department of Homeland Security spokesperson about the events that happened last week.

Quote, "From October 26th to October 28th, ICE conducted targeted operations in Springfield, in Peoria, and arrested 21 illegal aliens, including those with final orders of removal and criminal histories, including attempted first degree murder, predatory criminal sexual assault of a child, kidnapping with a firearm, home invasion with a firearm, aggravated battery, prostitution, domestic violence, fraud, DUI, and more.

All of the illegal aliens arrested received due process and will remain in ICE custody until they're removed."

What do you think about a statement like that?

- So, the... The guarantee of due process is not a guarantee, right?

So the first step, once an individual is detained, they are sent to a facility that often has deplorable conditions.

They're sent out of state.

A lot of individuals are sent to facilities in Indiana.

ACLU just filed a lawsuit against a facility in Indiana for the terrible, inhumane conditions of that facility.

And members of the administration have stated that the facilities are intentionally cruel in order to encourage individuals to want to leave those facilities, and so- - [Mark] And leave the country.

- And leave the country, right.

We have immigration courts where we have seen repeated violations of people's human rights and due process.

And we have talked to some of the families of individuals contained and we have serious concerns about whether some of those individuals have... The accuracy of some of those statements and whether some of them have pending asylum claims or have other claims and rights to remain in this country, and we're investigating and doing assessments on some of those cases.

So I think that, one, we can't take those at face value.

We hope that there is a fair and impartial court that can assess for each of these individuals whether there is a right to remain and whether under our laws they have a case to remain in the country or not.

And each one should have the right, should have an attorney by their side to determine whether under our laws they should stay in the country or be removed from the country.

One of our problems with our immigration system, right, is that whether they stay in the country or not is such a huge change to someone's life.

Just like whether someone is put in jail or not is such a huge, huge issue for someone's life.

It affects that individual, affects their family, affects their children.

And that is a serious, serious, serious legal matter and it should be taken seriously.

It shouldn't be done quickly, it shouldn't be done without legal protections, and it shouldn't be done without a lawyer.

That's what we're advocating for.

We're not advocating that no one should ever have consequences.

We're advocating for a fair and impartial process and we're very concerned that that's not happening in our current system.

- With that statement, ICE makes it seem like they're just going after the worst of the worst people in the world, but I'm sure you've seen some instances where they're just picking up an average guy off the street with no criminal record.

Is that the case?

- I don't know if that's the case for this specific range of actions because we haven't been able to thoroughly assess because this all has happened in this last week and I can't speak to these specific cases, but nationwide we definitely have been seeing that ICE has been going after people rather indiscriminately.

When we saw the surge in Chicago over the last year, we saw that ICE was picking up people who had no criminal history.

And in fact, there's a court settlement, Castanon-Nava, and under that agreement there, a judge found that some of the arrests made by ICE violated the law and were illegal and ordered the release of some of those plaintiffs.

But ICE had acted so quickly and the conditions in detention were so bad that some of those individuals had accepted their removal and so they had already left the country by the time the judge had ruled that ICE had acted improperly and illegally in their detention.

And so they had already, you know, ICE had already kind of won, right?

But they had ruled that there was no reason, they shouldn't have been picked up, they were illegally detained, they were put in proceedings without their proper constitutional rights being protected.

But that process was designed so quickly that by the time the courts could intervene, it was too late.

- I'm gonna read one more statement and get your comments on this because this is something I learned that I wasn't aware of.

This is from, again, the Department of Homeland Security.

Quote, "Being in detention is a choice.

We encourage all illegal aliens to take control of their departure with the CBP Home app.

The United States is offering illegal aliens $3,000 and a free flight to self-deport now.

We encourage every person here illegally to take advantage of this offer and reserve the chance to come back to the US the right legal way to live the American dream.

If not, you will be arrested and deported without a chance to return."

Were you aware of the fact that the government's offering them, folks money to leave the country?

- Yes, the government's basically saying, "We'll pay you money to get rid of your right to defend your claim to stay," right?

So they're basically saying, "Stop defending your right to remain with your family and in your community."

And that's, would you... Would you give up your right to remain with your family and your community and give up your whole life?

Or would you fight for your right to remain if you had a legal right to remain?

I think that's pretty tragic.

- Yeah, and I think if you have the legal right, some of the folks may not even know what their rights are.

And we've had people, especially online reading these stories that say, "Well, why do these people have constitutional rights if they're not US citizens?"

What do you say to that?

- Everyone has certain constitutional rights.

So the Fourth Amendment right to be protected from unreasonable search and seizure is a key one that applies in this context.

So, for example, if someone is in their home, then they are protected by constitutional rights.

So ICE cannot enter without a judicial warrant their home or their car or certain protected private places of a workplace.

That's something that should protect all of us, right?

And one of the issues here is if there are infringements of the rights and you have to wait to see, oh, what is your legal status before these rights apply?

Then should we all have to carry around our legal paperwork with us so that can be determined before we have rights?

I don't think so.

I used to work in Alabama, and when I was in Alabama there was a pretty strict anti-immigrant law that was passed.

And one of the provisions of the anti-immigrant law made it illegal to transport someone who was undocumented.

And the effects of that was that ambulances wouldn't pick up an unconscious Brown person because they couldn't determine the legal status of that person to determine whether it was illegal to transport that individual.

- Wow.

- Right?

So if we have to determine the legal status of an individual before we can determine what sorts of rights or protections they have in high-impact emergency situations, we have lost something.

- Erin, about 20 years ago you lived in El Salvador, a country that's had some issues.

And I think people out there, you know, if they don't know an immigrant or somebody that has lived in a different country that's having issues, tell us, you know, why people wanna come to America.

- I think the most important thing, I know that, you know, all stories are unique and different, but when you have family members or children, you know, that are coming and immigrating here, there's a reason for that.

So it doesn't mean that they're coming just because they love only, you know, love the United States and hate their countries.

Many, many times it's for safety reasons.

You know, in the past when I lived there during the years I did live there, I'm not speaking to now, but there were, you know, there was gang violence and they were being, it's what's called renta, right?

Renta, where they're asking families and businesses or, you know, even families who have small stores, for example, to pay a monthly fee or monthly, you know, money that they definitely do not have, or they're gonna have serious consequences.

So these are the types of, you know, people, and those are people that do come for asylum or do come for, if I'm speaking correctly, sorry, or, you know, as refugees or there's reasons, right?

So they're not just, I think when we have more empathy and compassion and understanding of why they're coming and what the reasons are, I think it helps people to understand a little bit better about what the effects of, you know, ICE is having and how we react to immigrants in general.

- Tell us a little bit about, you know, we had an election this week and things can change, but as it stands right now, and I'll let either one of you go for this question, what changes does the country, does the state need to make in terms of laws, in your opinions, to make it maybe easier for people to become citizens or just live their lives?

Charlotte, you're the lawyer.

Do you have any thoughts on that?

- So many.

One of our key problems is, you know, you mentioned before this, in that statement, that people can go outside the US and then do it the right way.

The problem with our immigration system is often there isn't the right way, right?

We have so many consultations, we do thousands of consultations a year with folks, and often there isn't a legal right path for individuals in our current immigration system.

And there's a disconnect between the needs of our labor force, the needs of our humanitarian kind of, our families and the humanitarian mission and values of our communities and our immigration law and policy.

So we have, for example, in our employment-based visas, we have visa categories where there's a category, but then we have two or three times the number of applicants who apply for that visa every year.

So there's so much demand for that visa, but then there's a limited supply.

And then same on the family-based immigration side.

There's types of visa categories for sibling-based categories where there's wait lists that are over 100 years long.

There's a wait list for survivors of domestic violence where we can apply for someone who is a survivor of domestic violence for a U visa who is assisting the police, who's doing everything they can to help with an investigation of a crime, trying to escape an abusive relationship, and they can apply for a visa to try to get work authorization to help support their kids who are US citizens, and that visa takes 15 years before they can get the visa because there's such a backlog in our immigration system.

So just a process that really lines up the needs of our labor force, the needs of our families with our immigration system would really help us get rid of these disconnects that we see, and really kind of some sort of comprehensive immigration reform is necessary.

And until we have comprehensive immigration reform, we're gonna see these repeated issues with our immigration system.

- Erin, do you see people, you know, when they do find out their rights and things like that, are they wanting to do this the quote unquote right way?

You know, I mean, some people would have us think that, you know, people are just waltzing across the border to come in here and pillage the US, but I would imagine there are plenty of people who just wanna work and support their families.

- Yes, and I think that is a very important statement that you did just make.

They're not, you know, I think that is the stereotype or the general, you know, what the idea that people have is that they're just coming over, you know, just coming across the border.

But like Charlotte mentioned, there are, you know, there's asylum, which is the legal way of doing that.

They're also, you know, imagine, you know, our migratory workers who come here for years and years and years every three months, every six months to do their work.

So it's really the path to citizenship and the path to, you know, being able to do it the so-called right way does need a lot of reform and I think that that is one of the biggest problems with what is happening now, so with stereotypes as well.

But definitely they're not, it is not... The killers, you know, these are not the people that we are helping or supporting, so.

- [Charlotte] Mm-hmm.

- Charlotte, complicated issue.

I don't have to tell you that.

You wanna give us your website in case people wanna find out more or have questions about the Immigration Project?

- Yes, definitely.

It's www.immigrationproject.org.

- All right, well, we appreciate you coming in.

I know you've been busy out there helping people.

And Charlotte Alvarez and Erin Lamboi are with the Immigration Project, and you have offices in Normal, Champaign, where else?

- Springfield.

- Springfield.

- And Kankakee.

- Okay.

Well, again, we appreciate you coming in.

Thanks for the information.

- Thanks for having us.

- Thanks for having us.

- All right, and thank you for watching.

You can share this interview or watch it again.

Just go to wtvp.org.

Have a good night.

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