(upbeat music) - Welcome to "A Shot of Ag".

I'm your host, Rob Sharkey.

Rural America, agriculture, farming.

We are not exempt from the problems of drug and alcohol abuse.

And today's guest is doing something about that.

Today, we're talking with Jimmy O'Connor from Crete, Illinois.

How are you doing, Jimmy?

- I'm doing great.

Thanks so much for having me.

- You look like a million bucks there, and nobody wears a jacket.

I like it.

- Thank you.

- Yeah.

I always want people to dress up for the show, but... - I mean, guys used to wear suits to baseball games, right?

- I can't talk.

All I wore is one t-shirt my entire life.

- These are my good jeans have now worked their way into my work jeans, so I've got done away three pairs.

So, we washed these last night.

(Rob chuckling) - So first of all, where's Crete?

- Crete is in Will County and if everybody knows where Chicago is, it's about 40 minutes south of Chicago.

- [Rob] Okay.

- Real close to the Indiana border.

- Are the Bears leaving?

- Yeah.

- You think so?

- Yeah.

- Okay.

All right.

Well, that's neither here nor there, but I'm not sure, if I'm happy or sad about that.

- Yeah, I know.

- Yeah.

Okay.

So, you're with Second Story Foundation.

- Correct.

- Tell me what that is.

- So, the Second Story Foundation was founded in 2022, and we are a 501(c)(3) nonprofit that was founded to help people with severe substance-use disorder overcome some systemic barriers to achieve long-term recovery.

And those major barriers are housing, employment, and then community connection.

- Okay.

Now, is this something that you suffered with?

- It is.

I myself am 10 years sober and I went through unemployment, homelessness, severe alcoholism, and in my path back included a detox, a 28-day inpatient treatment, and then a long-term residential program after that where I was given a job on a farm.

And that was transformational for me.

- Yeah.

Well, if this isn't my business, tell me to go pound sand, but I mean, did you know when you were alcoholism, did you know that you were in trouble?

- Yeah, absolutely.

And I think, the best way I can answer that is I knew I was in trouble years before it all came to a halt.

And for many years, I was on the edge of broken relationships, employment, switching jobs a lot, kind of moving around, trying to just kind of survive.

But to be honest, in my gut and my soul, I knew I was going down.

I just couldn't stop it.

- Yeah.

I think, sometimes in agriculture, you know, we're out in the farm, right?

So, the ability to get things, I mean, there's a lot of alcoholism in agriculture.

I know we don't like to talk about it, but there is.

Something happened to me in the late '90s.

I hurt my back, right?

And this was back in the day when they didn't care.

I went to the doctor and he gave me a bottle of 100 Oxy, 100 of them, right?

And by the time I finish that, if I was living in a town, I probably would've found it somewhere else.

I mean, to me, that really showed the power of addiction.

And if I hadn't gone through that, I'm not sure.

I might be a little jaded.

I might say, you know, "Well, why can't people just quit?"

What do you say when people have that type of attitude?

- You know, it's an educational process, I think.

And everybody has different experiences with people, some family members, friends that suffer in some way or another.

And you know, I'm an addictions counselor, and in a class I took, they talked about an invisible line.

And this invisible line is where someone's use that might start with painkillers for an injury, it might start with social drinking, kind of crosses over into something else.

And the person who ends up suffering from that is unaware.

It's why we call it the invisible line.

You're not sure when it happened.

You can't pinpoint the day or the date that things took a turn.

But once they do turn, things get progressively and consistently worse.

And I think, that what I would say to that person who says, "Oh, just get clean," it is hard to describe how difficult it is.

It's possible.

I want everybody to know that recovery, long-term sobriety is absolutely achievable.

It's just far more difficult than people think.

It takes more time, it takes more support, and it takes more direction than people assume.

- 10 years you've been sober.

I mean, is it.

I, honestly, I don't know.

Is it still like a daily struggle?

- No.

- No.

- I think, that the phrase we use, I'm a member of Alcoholics Anonymous and there's a phrase they use, "The obsession is lifted."

And that's a different journey for many people.

For me, it took years of work, attention to recovery, 12-step support groups, and being part of a healthy community in recovery.

But there comes a time where, you know, things shift.

Life changes and it gets better consistently in recovery.

And I'd say that, you know, for me, it is not a daily effort to keep from using drugs or alcohol.

That's not a problem.

It is daily effort to do all the maintenance work that it takes to maintain this life.

- I think, that's a positive thing.

People like to hear that, that you can get over the addiction, but I'm sure there's somebody out there listening that, you know, has, I don't know, kid or whatever, and they're like, "Boy, I wonder, if we are looking at an addiction thing."

I mean, you talk about that invisible line.

Is there signs?

Is there that one thing you missed work on Tuesday, that type of thing?

- Yeah.

It's a combination of things.

And I think the best, I get asked a lot, "How do I know I have a problem?

I know my friend, my love one, my husband, my kid has a problem."

And the way I would describe it is that we have relationships in different dimensions.

We have work, family, loved ones, romantic partners.

We have our relationship with civil society and the law.

We have relationships with our own health and our bodies.

And when drugs or alcohol start to cause those relationships to break down, then we might be looking at a problem.

- You're not just a good-looking guy in a suit jacket.

I mean, you know what you're talking about.

Certified alcohol and drug counselor.

Is that, I mean, something you go to school for?

- It's a thing.

- I know it's a thing.

- It's a thing.

- You probably got a plaque and everything, don't you?

- Yeah.

I do have a little plaque.

My wife has the plaque.

Yeah.

I went through severe alcoholism, homelessness, and then a process of recovery that took so many people showing me the way, giving me a lot of love and attention and direction.

And after a couple of years sober, I was working and decided that this was going to be something that I would dedicate my life towards is helping other people.

I went to become a certified alcohol and drug counselor, and that took a couple years of schooling, college-level courses for addiction studies, got a degree in addiction studies, and then did a year of clinical internship with the Guild House in Blue Island, a 3.1 halfway house.

And so, you know, it's something people confer upon you when you take the test and go to school, but it just says that I've got a little bit of clinical knowledge, a little bit of, you know, schooling in how to communicate some of the things that I've learned in recovery.

- Okay.

I mean, I would assume that really should be necessary.

- You know, I think it is.

There's different levels, right?

So, I think, a lot of people would be familiar, you know, with psychologists or therapists, those who have a clinical certification for, like, they're a licensed clinical social worker, or you know, LCSW, licensed clinical social worker, a CADC is a certified alcohol drug counselors.

Peer support specialists, PRSS specialists, are also really, really important.

And while they don't do clinical counseling, they help people get through the early parts of recovery, because they've been through that and then they've kind of gone to school so they can communicate in a healthy way, that path towards, you know, becoming sober and rebuilding a life.

- This is an unfair question, but I'm ask it anyway.

So, you've got, let's say parents, right?

That the kid, yeah, they can tell they're addicted to something.

- Sure.

- And you know, ag is farmers kind of hardcore, right?

Kind of stiff, the spare of the rod, or whatever they say.

There's a temptation to kick them out, right?

Is that the thing to do?

- That is a very difficult question, and it's a very difficult situation to be in.

I think, the answer is different for every family.

I think, we want to show as much love and support as we can.

And I think, one thing I would say, and I have said, I've worked with a lot of parents in that position, we'd like to think that the well that we have of love and compassion for our children and our loved ones is endless.

I want to be here to support you in any way.

There may come a time when you can no longer, in a healthy way, abide by some of the things that happen that are commensurate with addiction.

And you know, I've had parents tell their kids, "I love you enough to say no, and I'll support you in any way I can, but there's no longer room in this house or in my wallet for enabling behavior," right?

And I think, making that decision should come with some outside help.

- All right.

I got to move on, because I find myself just enthralled in what you're saying.

You're the owner and operator, right, of Second Story Ranch.

Well, tell me, is that separate from the foundation?

- No, I'm the executive director of the Second Story Foundation.

I am one of the founders.

And the Second Story Foundation is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, and the foundation owns the ranch.

- Okay.

- And it's funny you say the owner/operator of ranch.

I do not feel like an owner of the ranch.

- I'm just doing what my wife put on the card.

- We're stewards, right?

- Yeah.

- The foundation owns the property and we bought the property very intentionally.

We bought the ranch, because we have a farm, a 68-acre horse farm with fields, stables, equipment.

It provides us a work site that we know will never run out of work.

- A 68 acres around Chicago is a lot.

- Will County, there's significant ag land out there.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, there really is.

And so that farm, and anybody in the ag world knows, when you have a farm you have a work site that will never run out of work.

- Yeah.

- It's generational, right?

- Yeah.

- And so, that property provides us two things, major things.

Number one, it has enough land where we can build a long-term recovery home for men who can come live there after a 28-day inpatient program.

It also provides a work site that will never run out of work, so we can put men to work immediately when they get out of rehab and jobs in land management, equine care, actual farming, you know, facilities management, and then hospitality as well.

- But why a farm?

I mean, why would a horse be better than just, I don't know, sending them to, like, a factory or something like that?

- I mean, I could turn that back on you, right?

Why don't you give up the farm and go work in a factory?

- This is my show, man.

- Right?

Because there's something about it, right?

Working outside.

- Yeah.

- I think, nature and the rural life regulates your central nervous system in a way that driving a forklift maybe doesn't.

It's expansive, and I think, it's healing.

I know for my end, you know, for all the days that I wake up and you kind of go work with the horses, you get through your day, you're feeding, you're mucking stalls, you're turning them out, and then it's time for tractor work or field work.

At the end of the day, and you catch a sunset, right?

- Yeah.

- Just right, and you're like, "Yeah, no, this is why I do this."

- Yeah.

- And you're reminded that there's something greater than yourself.

The other thing about a farm, there's a reciprocal relationship.

It needs you to take care of it, and if you do, it will take care of you.

- Yeah.

Okay.

You remind me of an interview I did with a dairy farmer one time that suffered from alcoholism, and it was the dairy that pulled him out, because when he took it over, he was like, "You know, I have these animals.

I don't feed them, you know, they don't survive.

So every day I had to do this.

It was so much work, but I was so appreciative for it because it gave me a purpose that I didn't understand before."

- And so horses, I think, there's an iconic and a deep ancient relationship between humans and horses.

It's hard to explain.

Working with them is amazing, but we'll say to the men that work with us and in our workforce program, the horse doesn't care, if it's hot or cold, if it's raining or snowing, it doesn't care how you feel or if it's your birthday, you've got to get up and take care of it, right?

And it's counting on you.

And it gets you to the point where you can kind of put aside your own feelings and you learn day by day, I can do more than I thought I could.

On my worst day, I can still get up and make it into the barn.

And I think, that one of the most important things in recovery is to find purpose outside of myself, right?

That the work I do has meaning.

- This isn't hi ho silver though.

You got draft horses?

- So, I was going to say, you know what they say about big horseshoes?

- Yeah.

- Big horses.

- It's a family show, man.

- Big horses.

Yeah.

So, I was asked to bring something from the farm and the funny thing is we picked the horseshoe as one of our symbols even before we had horses.

And one of the first horses that the foundation received was a 18-hand, 2,000-pound draft horse.

- Oh.

- And for me anyway, interestingly, he didn't quite fit in several different farms.

He kept getting tossed around.

- [Rob] It's big animal.

Yeah.

- And when we were offered the opportunity, I said, "Absolutely, this guy's really amazing."

But I do believe that there are symbols that represent strength, hard work, effort.

We talked about, and that feel American and feel pride, the pickup truck, the horse, the horseshoe, John Deere.

- If you put this on the wall, you know you have to put it like that.

- Oh yeah.

- So the luck doesn't run out.

- Absolutely.

- Yeah.

It's a bad omen.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So run me through this.

It's only guys, right?

- For our project, we actually have taken women into our workforce program.

For our long-term recovery home, it will only be men.

I've been asked if we could build one for women.

I said, "Let's get the one up and running first."

- Yeah.

One take at a time.

- But the model could work for women easily.

- But it kind of has to be just, I mean, there's too much of a distraction there to.

- Yeah, it's just a better success rate.

- That's what you said earlier.

Chicks mess everything up.

- No, no, no.

- That's what you said, not me.

- I said the thing that really makes a difference, and I've run a program before that was a residential workforce program on a farm, and what recovery from severe substance-use disorder requires, especially in the early years, and the first year or two, that's still early when you're really trying to rebuild.

It requires effort, time, and attention.

- Two years is still early?

- Yeah.

- Okay.

- It is.

- Yeah.

- It is.

So, every day is a win when you're severely addicted.

Every day you get sober is a win, but really, you know, the first year you're just kind of digging out and still healing.

There's so much damage done in so many areas that it takes more time than people think.

Now, if you can hit a year, the next year becomes far more likely and a lot easier.

And then if you hit two years, three, four, and five, your odds just get better and better and better.

- Yeah, and I don't mean to ask you numbers questions, but I mean, as far as, like, deaths in the state with alcohol and drugs, I mean, do you have any idea?

- I don't have the numbers off the top of my head.

It's in tens and tens of thousands.

- Yeah.

- And thankfully, opioid deaths are coming down a bit in Illinois, and nationally, largely due to Narcan, Suboxone.

These are the nasal sprays that can reverse an overdose.

Alcoholism is still has one of the highest mortality rates for people in Illinois and nationally.

So, it's a huge problem and the death rates are high, but I also think, you know, we focus on that a lot, because there's the numbers and it's horrible to lose people.

There are many, there are thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of people in Illinois who are suffering alive, but they're in poverty, they're homeless, or housing isn't stable, moving around.

They're chronically unemployed.

And that level of suffering is extremely high.

So, the level of suffering that exists is really profound.

- Yeah.

So, the people that are coming.

I guess my question is, you got opioids, you got alcohol, the world is changing, and now, you know, a lot of these younger people got addicted to Xanax, stuff like that.

I mean, what does it take to qualify to get in your program?

- Suffering and loss.

- Okay.

So, it could be any drug?

- It is for substance-use disorder, and so, we could be talking opioid, methamphetamines, cocaine, crack, Xanax, marijuana, alcohol, all these things.

And so, the substance is the conflating factor.

The substance abuse is what brings you in.

But to qualify for our program, we don't take money from anybody, so we don't bill insurance.

We take people who are homeless or housing unstable, unemployed, at or below the poverty level.

And so, the price of entry is a tremendous amount of loss.

- Why do you do this?

I mean, you could do whatever.

I mean, you're an able guy, you're obviously intelligent.

Why do you do this?

- I've been in the nonprofit world for a long time, but I've also experienced that level of suffering and loss.

And I can't describe what it does to your soul and does to your heart, what it does to your psyche.

It's an awful thing to go through.

And I made it through by the grace of God and by the love and compassion and the systems that took me in and gave me another chance and put me on a path for a new life.

I am indebted to those people forever, and the best way I know to pay back what I owe, is to do this work.

- I was thanking you for your drive.

It's a two and a half hour drive here.

And tell them what you told me about why you came.

- I was asked in 2024, if I could build a recovery program for men from scratch.

I said, "Get me a horse farm and I'll think about it."

And then we found a farm, and it's been a few years and a long process and our project requires, you know, about $6 million all in and we had nothing when we started.

And I'm not some great fundraiser.

I'm not into politics.

I've gotten into it a bit, but I made a deal with the Lord.

I said, "I will go anywhere and I will talk to anybody about this problem and how we have a plan to not solve it, but to help in a really profound way."

So, I'm grateful to get in the car.

I'm grateful to be able to drive here.

I'm grateful for you guys to be asking me to be here.

- And you are raising money just to build the facility, right?

- Yeah.

We've gotten great support.

This year we won a $2 million grant from the Build Illinois Fund, thanks to some guys in the ag land, Pat Joyce.

Senator Pat Joyce is a farmer himself, Mike Hastings and David Koehler.

They've all been great supporters, and we've got a ways to go.

We are working really hard towards accessing capital from the Illinois Opioid Settlement Fund.

- Didn't even know there was one.

- Yeah.

It's a large pot of money and I think, it was meant to help projects like ours.

And so, we've got a lot of people helping us along that way.

We've got a building project.

We'll be starting the first phase of it soon, and we are working on hopefully, being open with our community center and recovery home at the end of '27 or beginning of '28.

- Well, first of all, where can people find you, online or you know, to get ahold of you?

- Sure, secondstoryfoundation.org, but we've also got a website.

If you type in bootsonletsgo.org, that's us.

- I can't believe you got that.

- We got it.

Boots on Let's Go.

Also Google Second Story Ranch.

We've had a great amount of luck and attention from Chicago ABC Channel seven.

The Illinois Farm Bureau has a great video of us.

Phyllis Coulter is amazing.

We're huge fans of the IFB.

We've been on Fox News, WGN, so just Second Story Ranch, Google it, or bootsonletsgo.org.

- Well, Jimmy, you know, when you do a show like this, you want to get people on that have made a difference in the world or going to make a difference in this world.

You definitely fit right in that category.

You know, we didn't get into it, but I got to imagine there's a lot of difficulty.

You've got to have a lot of tough days.

You know, you are 10 years sober.

I got to imagine that's more of a minority than that, but yet, you continue to go.

You continue to push through.

- I want to say something.

In 10 years sober, there's ups and downs.

Life happens, right?

For anybody listening, in the last 10, almost 10 and a half years I've been sober, the worst day I've had, the worst week I've had, the worst month I've had doesn't hold a candle to the days in active alcoholism and addiction.

So, I mean, for anybody listening, sobriety offers, your worst day doesn't hold a candle to what it was like before.

So, I'm just grateful to be here.

- That's pretty amazing.

Yeah.

And thank you.

And I thank you for saying that and thank you for being here too.

And thanks for bringing your enormous horseshoe.

- You got it.

- You can take that back home.

Hang it up like this.

- Hang it up like that.

- All right, Jimmy O'Connor from Second Story Foundation.

Jimmy, I want to thank you again.

Everybody else, we'll catch you next time.

(upbeat music) (upbeat music continues) If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to explore more of our local content.

You can connect with us on our social media platforms, visit our website, or download and watch the free PBS app.

We can't wait to see you next time on "A Shot of Ag".

(bright upbeat music)