(light upbeat music) - Not in my backyard, that's how many people are reacting to the possibility of a CO2 pipeline running 280 miles from Archer Daniels Midland facilities in Iowa to Decatur via Peoria and Tazewell counties.

A CO2 or carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas that contributes to global warming.

Under this plan, CO2 would be transported in an underground pipe to be stored permanently underground in the ADM Mount Simon Sandstone geological formation.

Now, we asked Wolf Carbon Solutions, the company that wants to develop the pipeline to come on the show several times, but they quote, "decided not to participate in this particular format."

They wanted a quote, "more inclusive discussion that would include supporters of the project."

So I emailed them back telling them that would be great and could they send me contact information for those people and send me any information they'd like us to use.

No reply.

So during this discussion, I'll be quoting information off of Wolf Carbon Solutions' website.

We also did not receive a reply from ADM when we requested a representative to come on the show.

Someone who is on the show is Joyce Blumenshine.

She is with the Central Illinois Healthy Community Alliance.

Joyce, thanks for coming on today.

- My pleasure, thank you for the invitation.

- Tell us a little bit about the group you're volunteering with.

- Central Illinois Healthy Community Alliance is a volunteer group.

We are organized around issues of clean air and clean water for Peoria, knowing that our city had a huge asthma problem, particularly on our environmental justice concerned areas, which are the South side and in the East Valley, the North Valley.

So concerns for what was happening to Peoria air and water were the main things that got us motivated, at that time there were clearly issues with the Illinois River due to a variety of pollutants.

- Well, this pipeline project, certainly divisive.

We're gonna be putting up some maps to show folks exactly where the proposed pipeline could go, the latest maps on Wolf Carbon Solutions website.

And from what you know from looking at the maps, it's gonna be coming kind of towards the South side of Peoria through Tazewell County.

What are your concerns mostly about this potential pipeline?

- [Joyce] Well this pipeline has multiple concerns.

The chief concern is we haven't had anything to this extent of this hazardous pipeline, high pressure, liquified carbon dioxide pipelines, 166 miles planned across all of Illinois and for all across Peoria County from the north angling around the west side toward the south, and then through all of the south and clear to the east border of Tazewell.

Those are huge issues for our metro area.

The CO2, if it's a tiny leak, can rupture due to the high pressure.

That means a cloud of CO2, which has no odor and no thing that you can see it could asphyxiate people, it is an asphyxiant, which means there's not enough air to breathe.

That's a big problem.

- Now, the concept of storing this underground, making a gas into a liquid, it's over my head.

I'm no scientist.

But storing it underground, the company says that once it is underground, it cannot leak through anywhere.

It can't affect the water supply, it is there forever.

I guess in theory it sounds like a good idea because we're saving the atmosphere from CO2, which scientists say causes global warming and climate change and things like that.

Is there a better alternative that you know of that we could help save the environment, I guess, and not do it through a pipeline?

- There is a better alternative.

Certainly there's different points of view, but clearly our climate is at code red for fires, glaciers melting, poles melting.

So we have to do something.

The thing we really have to do, and everyone pretty much agrees on, is take action and the problem is carbon dioxide.

So that is from carbon-based fuels.

Our question regarding the CO2 pipelines is why does that enable carbon-based fuels, whether it's gas, methane, natural gas to continue or coal-fire power plants to continue when we know shutting those down would really help alleviate this billions of dollars for this huge new network of very hazardous pipelines.

So why aren't there more things that can be done that really work like regenerative agriculture, planning forest, getting electronic vehicles, and all the things that we know will actually stop the use of CO2?

There's nothing in this pipeline project requires any of the companies along it are using it to actually go to clean energy.

That's a big problem as far as our group sees it.

- So short of stopping the emissions to begin with, it doesn't sound like there's a whole lot that we can do.

- Well, yeah.

- A lot of people that are along this potential pipeline, they're concerned.

We talked about safety, which seems to be the biggest concern.

Another thing that people are worried about is eminent domain.

Now Wolf says they've never used the power of eminent domain to take anyone's land, but that doesn't really stop people from worrying about it.

- Truly so, and eminent domain is a huge burden.

We've gotta think about the emotional, even financial stress.

Are people gonna put their repairs in their house as a farm family who's aging out, gonna worry about handing it off to their kids.

Eminent domain is a major psychological blow to anybody who gets a letter from this company.

And the concerns we have are that their previous pipeline, which is in Northern Canada, I believe it's about five people per square mile, is a whole different kind of animal here than the pipeline they planned through Peoria County.

With our high populations, this pipeline will skirt edges of communities like Brimfield, Hanna City.

So we have a whole different situation down here in the lower 48 than where Wolf is now.

- Is there anything, Wolf has said that this technology has been used for over 40 years in the US and that it is safe.

Is there anything they can say or do that can reassure people that nothing could happen?

- That's a really good question.

And as far as nothing could happen, let's just look at the anhydrous ammonia wreck just a few days ago here in Illinois where five people were killed.

Let's look at the train wreck in New Palestine, Ohio, accidents do happen.

And so in the lifetime of this pipeline, which could be 30 years or way more, the leases for the properties we think are in perpetuity, that's forever.

I mean, these things could be going on a very long time.

If you are a gambler, how much do you wanna gamble that nothing is going to happen?

These are under such high pressure, a tiny gap in a weld or ground erosion, that's what caused the pipeline break, referred to earlier, that you talked about where people were evacuated into hospital, that was due to heavy rains and ground erosion.

Do we have any heavy rains around here?

Let's think about this.

What's the future hold?

What is a better way to go forward?

We know some industries will have to have carbon capture, but certainly at this point we need a more mindful plan.

- Another issue people are talking about besides safety and eminent domain, they're talking about some of the other positive things, which are jobs.

Now I did talk with a local union representative.

They said they're not advocating for the pipeline one way or another.

But they say they've been assured by Wolf that if the pipeline is approved by the Illinois Commerce Commission, this will create union jobs and could be quite a few jobs for a long time.

So how do you argue against that when there are people out there that need work?

- First, I urge every union that might be considering this to get in writing, how many jobs, are they saying three or four?

Let's be realistic.

These pipelines are highly technical.

We have the best workers in Peoria.

But do these crews that work on this pipeline come from out of state into state?

How many workers will really be hired?

And let's look at the reality.

No offense to union jobs, but this is a one-time deal.

They're gonna build this pipeline and then the burdens will be left on the community.

The risks are to the landowners.

We have heard people can't even get insurance to help any liability to them.

So let's think about the union jobs and their reality for the greater public and what other kind of jobs we really wanna have that help our community, great buildings and things that the unions do do.

- And according to Wolf, again, this is from one of their press releases, "The hub would support 2,780 jobs during construction, 342 jobs annually."

And this is another quote from them.

"The Mount Simon hub will have significant spare capacity to service other local businesses and third-party customers looking to lower their carbon emissions across the Midwest."

So it sounds like at some point other companies could quote unquote "hook into the pipeline."

So that's where we stand as far as jobs.

And they do have numbers on how this could affect the economy in a positive way.

But again, those people who are living in the proposed path, they seem to care most about their safety.

- Absolutely, yes.

Who wouldn't?

What one of us in our homes don't want safety for ourselves, our families?

What one of us in our homes wants to have a ticking time bomb within 100 feet, 2,000 feet, whatever it is from our house that we know at some point in time could mean we have minutes at the most to escape.

And let's be realistic, for the union numbers, let's just get something on paper that they promise or sign on the line.

How many jobs will there really be locally?

And what's gonna happen to the people who have this for generations to come?

The risk and cost to the county, to our EMTs, to our other structures like this pipeline will go into roads, it's gonna go under the Illinois River.

What are the full costs to our community?

Ground erosion.

What's gonna happen if there's another accident like what happened at Satartia, Mississippi?

I don't think any of us can afford that.

How many deaths could that be?

- In a little bit, our Phil Luciano talked with a homeowner, a landowner in Tazewell County.

He's gonna tell us a little bit about what he thinks about it, what some of his concerns are, excuse me.

Now with your group, tell us what you've been doing in the last few months to get the word out about this and how could like-minded people find out more information?

- Our volunteer group has been going around to give information programs because there's a huge gaping lack of information from the company and then from just general information available to the public.

So how do people find out the full story?

The company presents their story as you've kind of given some information from, we have the concerns from the public citizen side that have to live with this.

And so we have been giving information talks.

We've tried to have news things and thank you for this opportunity.

We've tried also as a group, we have filed into the case at the Illinois Commerce Commission and that's very significant to take a stand there.

So we are active as we can, as volunteers with basically no budget to fight this corporation.

And the sad story is that it's very difficult.

People are busy with their own lives and nobody wants to face, much less think about climate change is hard enough, but facing this huge risk that could affect you and your family is a big mental and almost in many ways a financial challenge.

What are you going to do?

Stay there or think about leaving?

- We do wanna update people and give you an idea of the timeline of this whole process.

The Illinois Commerce Commission expected to take this issue up and make a decision next spring.

And we actually have this right hot off the presses.

There has been a motion to dismiss that was just filed today, I believe, today or yesterday.

- [Joyce] Today.

- [Mark] Today, and you wanna tell us a little bit about this?

- Be happy to.

So the group that is the interveners on the side of the public is CAPP, Citizens Against Predatory Pipelines.

We are focused on stopping this permit at the Illinois Commerce Commission.

That's the basic place we can stop it.

That entity allows it to be built and operated.

So we have filed through our attorneys, excellent attorneys, Meyer and Capel, to have the case dismissed because of some really gaping holes we see in the application by the state law and I'll only go into one aspect of it 'cause it gets all convoluted.

But one aspect that's key, the State Commerce Commission has a 200 foot right of way.

So in its application, Wolf has 200 feet stated, but then they are taking their own opportunity to have a half mile on either side of that 200 feet for what they call their notification route.

So they are notifying a lot more people.

They are possibly putting at risk a lot different area.

We don't know exactly where their route's gonna be because they can flex that anywhere within their self-designated extra wide route.

Now is that fair to every other company that's filed to the Illinois Commerce Commission when the statute says 200 feet?

We are raising that question through our attorneys and some others.

- And the state's attorney's offices in Peoria County and Tazewell County are also getting involved.

They've petitioned to the Illinois Commerce Commission to have their voices heard.

They aren't taking a stand one way or another right now, but they want their voices to be heard during this process.

Have you been in any communication with any of our local elected officials to see if they have concerns or will support what you're fighting for?

- Yes, we have.

And we have, and again, a shout out to the dedicated amazing volunteers who are moms or teachers or Workday jobs or whatever, who squeeze in time to do this.

Because we have talked to a variety of local legislators and also representatives on county board and city council.

And you know, there is concern out there, but there's also, as you brought up, well, it's jobs.

So you know, what plays in Peoria, what is the new Peoria to have as their focus, as our guiding light to move forward?

Are we gonna enable a pipeline to come in this area and put people at risk?

I don't know.

But we have done outreach.

We are getting different messages from different people, as you might imagine.

And the key point I wanna make here is that it's really our future, not just for the people with this in their backyards, but for our entire area if this pipeline goes in, because this is just the beginning.

This company is reaching out to many other industries.

We don't know, are they gonna sign on (indistinct) by the end of the year during Christmas holiday?

Maybe.

Or are they not?

Are they gonna sign on Alto and Pekin along Cancer Alley there where Pekin homeowners already suffer huge unfair economic and other problems.

We have serious issues here that are the bigger picture of this pipeline.

And to me it's justice, environmental justice, fairness for all those in our community, no matter their economic level or where they live.

- So there are concerns that we could potentially be opening up the floodgates for other projects that they say, yeah, if Illinois wants this pipeline going from Iowa to Decatur, well maybe they'll want this going from here to there and everywhere.

- That will happen.

There is no national plan for these pipelines.

There's no state plan for these pipelines.

Our state current regulations are totally inadequate.

There was never intended for these hundreds of miles, this close to populated areas.

Even like Brimfield, Hanna City, or Laura in rural areas.

These people deserve safe, healthy life.

And now this pipeline is coming in with huge risks and we are not prepared.

The Illinois regulations at part 30 of our code refer to the federal regulations.

Those are under review right now, and they're gonna be changed.

We don't know how, but shouldn't we wait till the new federal regulations are out because our state relies on them?

Well, that's not happening.

As I mentioned before, maybe these pipeline companies are in a rush to get in under the wire before there's more stringent regulations.

We don't know.

- Lots of questions.

And have you been to any of the town hall meetings that have been attended by the Wolf people and- - Yes, I have, several.

- Have they been forthcoming in answering questions or giving people the information that they're seeking?

- Well, I wanna thank Wolf.

They came to Peoria.

I was at Logan County in the town of Atlanta just a few weeks ago.

I've heard them present.

They are very professional but friendly and they stick to their story.

So they do answer questions, but they, my personal opinion is they leave a lot unknown.

And that's the problem with this whole project and what it will mean to everyone here.

- Well, Joyce, if people wanna learn more about what the Central Illinois Healthy Community Alliance is doing, how can they do that?

- Well, they can look us up on Facebook.

That would be just great.

And you can please like us, we post information there about the CO2 pipeline upcoming events.

So thank you, that would be just super.

- We'll be following up on this.

Joyce, appreciate your time today.

- Well, I thank you very much.

- Thank you.

And as we mentioned earlier, there was a pipeline incident in Mississippi recently.

We're gonna tell you about that, and our own Phil Luciano talked to a Tazewell County homeowner and landowner to get his perspective on what the pipeline could mean if it runs through his area.

- [Phil] Elton Rokey expected to spend his golden years in peace.

The 73-year-old Caterpillar retiree and his wife have lived for more than a half century in a farmhouse amid crop fields south of Pekin.

- Close neighbors that are very good friends, watch out for each other.

It's just a whole different way of living.

It's gardening and mowing and just taking care of the place and enjoying the fresh air and the sunshine.

- [Phil] But now he says the Wolf is at the door, as in Wolf Carbon Solutions, which wants to put a controversial CO2 pipeline near his property, but not if Rokey can help it.

Since August, he has beat the drum in opposition to civic groups and anyone else who will listen.

- Due to the dangers of this pipeline, it's not something I don't want in my backyard, it's something I don't want in anybody's backyard until it can do further testing, set up regulations to safely operate this pipeline.

- [Phil] Though Wolf Carbon says the pipeline would be safe, Rokey thinks otherwise.

He cites the 2020 rupture of the Denbury Gulf Coast Pipeline in Mississippi.

More than 31,000 barrels of CO2 were released in a plume, prompting an evacuation of 300 people.

More than 40 went for hospital treatment, some for CO2 poisoning and oxygen deprivation.

- It sends a plume out a mile and a half depending on weather conditions and the wind.

And if you're within that range, you could suffer debilitating injuries for a lifetime.

If you're close enough to it, you'll be dead in four minutes.

- [Phil] The Wolf Carbon Pipeline will run about 1/16 of a mile from Rokey's property.

For him and surrounding homeowners, he worries about the pipe bursting, especially at night.

- We received a letter about six weeks ago and I had my head in the sand and didn't pay any attention to it.

And about four weeks ago, I got actively involved in this.

- [Phil] Likewise, he fears for nearby Rankin School, which has students between kindergarten and eighth grade.

- It's gonna go within hundreds of feet of Rankin School with 200 of some of the smartest kids, brightest kids in the county.

And if they were outside on the bald diamond or on the track, they couldn't even get into the building to try to escape it.

- [Phil] The Rankin School Board opposes the pipeline going anywhere near the school.

And Rokey started a Facebook group called Tazewell County, Stop the CO2 Pipeline.

He thinks the pipeline is being rushed before the state can establish strict guidelines.

- At the very least, a moratorium should be signed to delay this till proper approval and regulations can be applied.

- [Phil] Plus he wonders if there's any real ecological benefit to CO2 pipelines or in Illinois taking CO2 from out of state.

- It's a shell game.

All they're doing is taking that carbon footprint and hiding it in Illinois, basically, we're the dump.

- Back here with Phil Luciano.

I would imagine there are quite a lot of people like Elton who are concerned about this potential pipeline.

- Yeah, and the one thing, and it is, it's certainly a serious issue, but on a side note, what I think is really encouraging is in this day and age, you always hear about, ah, everyone's apathetic.

No one cares.

They're just looking at their phones, blah, blah, blah.

In this situation, you've got multiple groups in just Central Illinois rising up to say their piece, whether you agree with them or not.

It's just encouraging that people get, I mean, they're going out on week nights and putting up signs and doing all this grassroots stuff.

It's like, oh man, that's America.

- Yeah, with no budget.

- Yeah.

And they're really getting a lot of attention.

It's one of those things, you know, don't just, if if something's bugging you, get a whole other people.

You can really say your piece and get some attention.

- Now we'll talk about Elton again since you talked to him, what other concerns did he have?

- One that he is talking about is, although the company, Wolf Carbon says that the pipes will be buried far enough down to not cause any problems with farms.

Elton and others say that's not the case.

They're close enough to the surface of agricultural land where farming equipment is gonna get snagged or bumped and it's just not gonna be a smooth run.

That's their worry.

And obviously agriculture is big business around these parts, so they're worried.

- Yep.

I believe Wolf said there'll be a minimum, the pipe will be a minimum five feet under the ground, maybe more.

But yeah, if I'm on a big auger or something, I don't know.

- I'm a little nervous.

Those are heavy pieces of equipment out there.

Yeah, you don't want 'em getting snagged, especially during harvest season or whatnot.

- Yeah, absolutely.

Well, this is an issue, again, we're gonna be following this.

We'll have follow up shows on this and let you know what happens.

We're waiting the springtime to see what the Illinois Commerce Commission has to say about this proposed pipeline.

Well, right after this, "You Gotta See This" on a much lighter note.

What are we in for this week?

- This is an interesting episode 'cause it's something that you really enjoy, video games.

We're gonna visit with a bed and breakfast that has video motif and that's kind of fun.

A lot of games, it's a different type of place.

But what I especially enjoy is seeing this footage ahead of time where apparently you were like a video game guru in your youth.

Or maybe now, maybe now you're still.

- I am not one now, but I was a master of the Atari.

The Nintendo, I think all the way up until maybe the PlayStation one and then I quit.

But I'm gonna take you to a video game museum in Central Illinois.

It's not your typical museum where everything's dusty and not fun.

This you actually get to play the video games.

It's very unique and it's in a small town.

Were you a video game guy at all?

- I was bad, I was very bad.

But I did, I lost plenty of quarters.

But that's what's great about this museum.

I know the museum.

It sounds like it's real sciencey or something, it's a bunch of video games and you go in there and you play 'em.

But it is the old school type, so at least I know, hey, I lost a lot of quarters on that one and a lot of quarters on that one.

And I was really bad at that one.

So it's fun, it was a nice look.

- Yeah.

And it is cool seeing little kids walk into this place and it's just sensory overload.

The noises that you remember from the video game themes and everything else.

It's a lot of fun.

- And one other thing during the show, we decided to take a look at some of the national days.

You know, there's a day for everything, right?

And one of 'em today is National Get Funky Day.

And you'll have to check out what one of our graphic artists Tarin did with you, me, and Julie Sanders, the other co-host in terms of our funkiness.

It's a hoot.

- Oh boy.

Is it a competition?

Does one of us win the funkiest?

- I'll give it to you.

Why not?

I'll defer to you, but I think you might be doing some disco dancing.

We'll see.

- Oh boy.

That is must-see TV.

Well, we thank you for joining us this week.

Don't forget to stay tuned for "You Gotta See This" with Phil and Julie.

And next week we are back here with "At Issue."

We're gonna talk about a serious topic, child predators, and what some local towns and counties are doing to catch people before they commit bad acts.

Thanks very much for joining us.

We'll see you next week.

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