(dynamic instrumental music) (dynamic instrumental music increases intensity) (dynamic instrumental music fades) - A nationwide movement started less than three years ago, is now taking root in central Illinois.

Supporters and opponents of Moms for Liberty are very passionate and very vocal.

Before we talk to local chapter representatives and the people who oppose their ideas, Phil Luciano gives us some background on Moms for Liberty.

- [Phil] Moms for Liberty was founded in early 2021 in Florida by three women who had served on local school boards.

The organization began by campaigning against COVID-19 safety restrictions in schools such as mask mandates.

The group later broadened its agenda to other school related policies such as how racism, religion, and gender identity are addressed in reading materials provided to students.

- Someone is demonstrably harming our children.

We are going to come together to fight to protect them.

(crowd cheering) - [Phil] The group has been supporting like-minded candidates for school boards nationwide.

The message is working.

In July, 2022, Moms for Liberty claimed 195 chapters in 37 states with almost 100,000 members.

A year later, it had 245 chapters in 45 states and more than 120,000 members.

Moms for Liberty leaders say their group is nonpartisan, but all three founders are registered Republicans.

And at its annual summit last summer, speakers included four GOP presidential candidates, including former President Donald Trump.

(audience clapping) - You're not the threat to America, you're the best thing that's ever happened to America.

- [Phil] However, Moms for Liberty is a threat as well as an extremist organization, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

- We included them in this year's report because of their anti-government principles.

They traffic in conspiracy theories about an illegitimate government.

They take actions to censor school discussions around race, discrimination, LGBTQ identities.

- [Phil] At the Moms for Liberty Summit, protestors pushed back, deriding the group for banning books and spreading anti-LGBTQ+ misinformation.

The Southern Poverty Law Center shares those and other concerns.

- What they want is a public education that prioritizes white, cisgender children and other other-izes children of color and different gender identities.

- Joining me tonight are Virg Cihla and Dee Fogal with the Moms for Liberty, Tazewell County Chapter.

Bryan Groth represents the Morton for Equality Task Force, and Heather McMeekan is with the National Organization for Women Peoria Chapter.

Thanks everybody for coming on and squeezing in the time and literally squeezing onto the set.

We appreciate it.

- Thank you.

- Let's start with Virg and Dee, whichever one of you wants to take it.

- I'll take it.

- What is Moms for Liberty?

- Well, Mark, thank you for inviting us.

Your two previous episodes on "The Report Card" made the case for a lot of the things that we'll let Dee talk about as far as what Moms for Liberty is already doing in Tazewell County.

But Moms for Liberty of Tazewell County is dedicated to fighting for the survival of America by uniting, educating, and empowering parents to defend their parental rights at all levels of government.

We hold leaders accountable, we spread awareness, we oppose government overreach.

We do not co-parent with the government.

We promote liberty, we engage on issues, and we have a community outreach that is aimed at making the experience for our children, grandchildren, and for the children of our community to have a better experience within the public school system.

We are dedicated and focused on working on the betterment of the public, of the government run schools.

- And Heather and Bryan, I'll ask you what is Moms for Liberty?

- Well, I'm not gonna speak about what their platform is, but my question first, you know, it's Moms for Liberty and yet it, we have a white male here who is obviously not a mother explaining what their platform is.

And they use terms like liberty and they use terms like parental rights, and defending freedom and we don't necessarily even know what they mean by those.

But what I mean by that is that schools are obligated to provide an emotional, social, learning environment that is diverse, that is emotionally safe for the children to learn.

They should have diverse instructors who understand them.

And all children should be free to learn about who they are, should receive competency in cultural learning.

And you don't see Moms for Liberty chapters setting up in diverse schools, they tend to stick to schools that are already in communities that are overwhelmingly white like Morton.

Because they would receive a lot of challenge for some of the things that they promote.

But their rights do not supersede the rights of, far right, Christian people do not supersede the rights of diverse children to be safe in their learning environment and free from bullying.

- Let's talk about that, Dee and Virg, because she mentioned far right.

From the articles you read, the things you see, it would seem that Moms for Liberty predominantly is supported by conservative groups, conservative people.

Is that fair to say?

- Yeah, it's disappointing that we haven't got any Democrats who like to protect parents' rights.

I think that's a sad commentary.

- Well, when you talk about parents' rights, and Dee, I'll ask you about this, what are some of the rights that you're concerned about?

- So parents do have a right to opt out of certain curriculum, and a lot of 'em don't know that.

So the state, Illinois State Board of Education and our executive and legislative branch have basically stated that sex ed, K-12 is appropriate curriculum.

And they did allow individual school districts to opt out.

And many have, the vast majority did, because that's what their parents wanted.

Those schools that didn't, do the parents know that they can sign a form to opt out of any of that curriculum that they do not want someone in their school teaching their child?

So the rights, the rights to look at the books before they're approved, they can do that as well.

So these are some of the things that we just want to express to parents that they have the right to look into that and opt out if they choose.

- Bryan, speaking of books, I know that a lot of groups, including Moms for Liberty, are are concerned about some of the books that our kids are able to get in their school libraries.

What are your thoughts on parents having control over that?

Or is that something that we should trust our school board members to decide what books are okay?

- Well, censoring books is problematic on a number of accounts.

But what is interesting about Moms for Liberty banned book list is it's predominantly banning books against marginalized people, people that need, deserve to be seen and heard, and supported by our public schools and their leaders.

So that's a huge issue for me when I see materials that are created by renowned authors, intended to bring awareness to diversity, equality, marginalized groups that have historically been oppressed.

And, in my school district, Morton School District, we already have a number of things that are working against those groups.

And it doesn't just work against those groups, it communicates to the majority people that it's okay to continue to lack awareness, lack understanding, lack in empathy that's critical to the survival of the marginalized people.

- If I may jump in here, and just, there was a characterization of sex ed as somehow being inappropriate.

You're talking about comprehensive, developmentally appropriate, scientifically informed sex education that includes things like consent, knowing what your body parts are, knowing about how to say no to certain things or how to describe crimes against you.

The first stage of sexual contact in Illinois for many years was third grade.

And they advocate for depriving these children of their education.

And that comes from- - No, ma'am, we're not.

- Excuse me, excuse me.

We advocate for parents' rights.

- Excuse me, I'm speaking.

- Virg, I'm gonna ask you question next.

- We advocate for parents' rights.

We don't advocate, what you're words- - Excuse me.

- You're putting words in our mouths.

- Okay, reclaiming my time, reclaiming my time.

- I'm gonna let you respond to this.

Let's finish up, Heather.

- Yes.

So what I would say to that is that comes from a place of privilege where they assume that all children will get good and qualified instruction at home.

What they're advocating for is to just do away with that and let those kids who don't get that instruction not have it.

That is not gonna help us with the STIs, that's not gonna help us with teen pregnancy, that's not gonna help us with all the children who are sexually abused and don't know how to describe it.

They need that instruction.

- Virg, what's your response to that?

- The abuse of the English language that's happened already in this show is really interesting.

The word banned has been used about books.

And, you know, the first banning of books in the United States was done by the Democrats that ran the Confederacy and prohibited "Uncle Sam's Cabin" from being sold or included in possession.

Now we're equating to having books that are not age appropriate removed from schools.

This is the same as banning.

Those books are still on eBay, they're still on Amazon.

These books are not being banned.

The misusing of the English language to morally equate banning books with restricting publicly funded schools from having age inappropriate documents is just a misusing language.

- By who?

By who?

Because we have experts who have decided that those are age appropriate.

You have no expertise to decide what.

- So the second - But these are.

- So the second thing that is pro-government, the way the United States has been founded is that there's something like 900 school districts in the state of Illinois.

So we believe that the reason there are 900 school districts is that each community can set the standards that that community believes is appropriate.

- There's 900 school districts so people don't have to travel so far to get, for their kids to get education.

And that's necessary.

- Well, that's a clever, that's a clever ruse, but that's not the case.

(several panelists speaking at once) - [Dee] May I interject?

- [Mark] Go ahead.

- So third grade, a teacher teaching masturbation is not appropriate.

And that's part of that curriculum.

- Children do masturbate in third grade and you know it's stress relief and it's not sinful.

- [Dee] I just don't think - And there's nothing wrong with talking to children - A teacher wants to teach that.

- about that.

- I've spoken with teachers and they have decided that they would retire before they would teach.

- But that's a logical fallacy that you're saying.

- Dee, let me ask you a question then.

When it comes to sex ed, do you believe, the way it's being taught now, do you believe it should be abolished or should it be a case-by-case basis, the parents say, yes, my child could be in that class, or no, my child shouldn't be?

- I think sexual activity should not be taught on the how, and with who.

Sexual organs, scientific information, of course.

But kindergarten through eighth grade, they shouldn't be, teachers shouldn't be expected to teach this.

And they don't want to.

- [Heather] If I may, there's no qualification behind that statement.

- And to say that's mandatory to teach a sex ed curriculum in a school district because it came down from the state level, each individual school district should decide, and then each parent should have the opt out option.

And that's what we're advocating for.

- Let let throw this out there.

(stool skidding) Oh, sorry.

- Caught you.

- Bryan and Heather, do you believe that the State Board of Education should be able to mandate what every school district teaches?

Or should it be up to the district?

When we're talking about?

- So these regulations are a floor and they didn't come out to just teach kids to go have sex.

And that characterization shows that you have not done your homework on this issue and you do not have the qualifications to supersede what our brightest minds in the educational profession have come up with, which is that all children need a base set of information by which to interact with the world, to allow them to have some skills to deal with their peers.

But also, Moms for Liberty and the groups that they are tied with are even against, they've come out against even providing that education that allows children then to be able to make informed decisions when they are faced with things.

Because people who are not properly informed are more easy to abuse, they're more easy to lead astray.

Teaching sex ed, they aren't just teaching that.

Most teachers who are able to teach comprehensive sexuality education are not talking about let's go up in the bedroom and do this.

And teaching these things does not encourage them to have sex.

Children already explore, a lot of them are abused and they need the knowledge and the language of their bodies and consent to be able to describe that.

So when something does happen to them, they can be as safe as they can be and they can get to a trusted adult.

And they need to understand what those things look like.

- Heather, you're completely entitled to your opinion.

Our position is- - That's not an opinion.

I hold my master's in community health ed as a health educator.

- [Virg] It's still your opinion.

- Just so you know.

- You're completely entitled to your opinion.

and I'm glad we have a forum here to permit you to say that.

We believe that it's the parent's choice to make that decision for their child, not yours.

- [Heather] But not for every other kid in that school.

- Well, we're not asking for that.

- [Heather] And not for all over the state.

- We're not asking for that.

- [Heather] Yes, you are.

You're advocating that you just do away with that curriculum.

- You don't what Virg Cihla and Dee Fogal are asking for.

- Well, what are you asking for?

Tell us, Virg.

- We're asking for parents' rights.

And as Dee was trying to make the point, the current state law, the legislator put in the law that each school district could opt out of the sex ed.

That indicates some resistance to what the experts were asking the state legislator to do.

When the legislators put that in the law, I think there was downstate something like two school districts that did not opt out.

So whatever the experts convinced the legislators to do, most of the school districts below the Cook County said, no, that's not appropriate.

We're not gonna do it.

- But not because that was informed.

Not because they had the credentials to say that.

- So again, you have the right to that opinion, but elected opinion professionals in all these school districts, 'cause they're all elected, they're all people who are citizens of those communities who've taken the burden to dedicate their time and energies to help educate the kids, those int-elected individuals said no.

- [Bryan] I've heard a lot about- - So your education's fine and I understand that.

But the people who have the power to make those decisions, the school boards listen to the parents.

- I've heard a lot about, I've heard a lot about elected officials and being representative of the community.

The problem with that is our democracy is not just about satisfying the needs of the majority, it's about protecting the minorities, as well.

- That's right.

- And in an area where the majority says it's not appropriate to do something that's in the best interest of some of those minorities or some of those marginalized people, then they don't have access to that.

And you said earlier, Virg, that there's books on Amazon and things like that.

There're people that can't afford the resources to go do that, that's why public institutions and our taxpayer dollars provide those.

When they're taken away, some of those people have no access to those materials.

- I would encourage you to listen to the clip of Senator John Kennedy reading some of these books that are being found in elementary schools.

And he was reading them to an Illinois legislative branch person, Giannoulias.

And I encourage you to listen to that because that is something that we do not want a child to have access to.

- [Heather] You don't want your child to, but there are children whose lives.

- So we have ratings.

- Do you reflect that.

- In movies, in gaming systems.

So you're saying that rating systems that say this is inappropriate for this age level is all infringing on the rights of children to learn about things that are adult content.

Is that what you're saying?

- So what I am saying is that where does this lead to?

If we allow every school district to basically put every book up for discussion in a yay or nay vote, if you're in a community where a lot of people have an average reading level of say, seventh grade, they may not even understand why that book was there.

But there are children who do need diverse books like that and reducing it to a discussion about, oh, some of these are obscene or whatever, diverse reading, there are readers who are, those are developmentally appropriate for that age range.

Whether or not culturally or psychologically a child is ready for that is between them and their parents and their teacher.

But to say we have to pull that book out because it has these words or that that is a tactic of authoritarianism.

That is not protecting anybody.

- [Virg] No, it's democracy.

- You have movie ratings, you have gaming ratings, - Gaming ratings are not the same thing as providing pedagogically appropriate, developmentally appropriate information available to students who need that.

And students not interested in it aren't gonna check that book out.

But there are students who need that information.

- A picture in a child's book of an uncle in bed with his nephew is appropriate?

- [Heather] Whatever context that is.

- In third or fourth grade or fifth grade?

- The sharing of the family bed around the world is the cultural norm.

- [Dee] The context.

- But if you're making it sexual in third grade, that's that's on you.

- That's exactly what that book was about.

- We've talked about sex ed and books.

Let's talk about what other issues that you're concerned about specifically in Tazewell County and the reason why you started the chapter.

What are some of the big things you're concerned about?

- Can I let Dee talk about some of the victories we've had already?

Because I think- - [Mark] Well tell us what your group is looking to do and what you're concern about.

- I wanna let, I'm gonna let Dee, - Yeah, absolutely.

- Talk about things that are already happening.

- So we have an outreach group and we are reaching out for community involvement.

So let's get parents, let's get community members who have the time to volunteer to get into the schools to help.

You know, we have a, I have a friend whose son was beat up in school and a female teacher had to break it up.

That female teacher is not equipped physically to handle three young men beating on another young man in high school.

And so what we are looking to do is find volunteers to mentor students.

So there's a Kids Hope USA program that will match one church with one school and the church then recruits and vets mentors.

And then the school district also then vets them through background checks to make sure they're appropriate volunteers.

And they go in and mentor one child for one hour, one time a week for the whole school year.

So some of the things that Kids Hope USA has been out in the non-profit area for 25 years and they've seen in the upper 80% improvement in behavior of those students that are being mentored.

Socio-emotional competencies have increased, academically, they've improved.

And these are 87, 89%, 79% improvements.

- I will get grant that this is a well-intentioned effort, but I will also point out that the platform that you organize around also involves organizing around groups like Turning Point USA.

Turning Point USA has taught their young people help us make training videos.

So they go in the schools, they encourage young folks who are diverse to reveal who they are and they get 'em on video.

And then they turn 'em over to their leaders and those people end up being dots on a a line.

- [Dee] We're not Turning Point.

- You made that same point.

- We're not them.

We're Moms for Liberty.

- Excuse me, I was speaking, let me finish this.

- You're talking about people who are not Dee and Virg.

- Problematic realm that you all are organizing with comes right out of, - You are talking about people who not Dee and Virg.

- Remember, we had white Christian nationalists who went along with the Nazis and felt perfectly- - All right, now you're talking that Nazis, this is over.

When she starts talking Nazis in this- - Well, I'll tell you what, we're just about- - We turned the lucency of this conversation.

- We're just about outta time.

I wanna give both sides one more chance to talk.

Tell us what people need to know about Moms for Liberty in Tazewell County.

- We have a lot of volunteer opportunities.

I have in the mail right now, pocket Constitutions to pass out to all eighth graders in Tazewell County.

I need help getting those in the hands of the schools to pass out to those students.

And the Kids Hope program, I can't speak highly enough of it.

KidsHopeUSA.org go on site on their website and look at what they offer and what that program can mean to students.

And let's get our communities around our schools, our teachers, they are our friends, they are our neighbors, they are our family members, they are fellow parishioners.

They are the backbone of our community and we need to be in there and helping them.

- Bryan, as we're quickly running out time here, - Well, I just say this, Virg and Dee, you say that these words don't match, but you've chosen to align yourself with a national organization that was just recently placed on the Southern Poverty Law Center anti-government extremist list.

- And so were parents.

- Please don't interrupt me - At school boards.

- Please don't interrupt me.

- [Mark] Let's let him finish real quick, go ahead.

- In Morton School District, we have an administrator who is using school resources to subscribe to organizations very much like Moms for Liberty that have an anti-LGBTQ+, an anti-Black, a pro Christian bias, which by the way, I am a Christian, but there is an important part of the First Amendment called the Establishment clause that says it is not to be part of a public institution.

And we don't recognize, we fail to recognize that that is essential to the protection of our religious freedoms, not a threat to them.

Our state institutions are not allowed to push a religious component within their school, which is happening in our district.

So I think these organizations are really an effort to move us backwards instead of forwards and I think they will be met with resistance from organizations like Peoria Now and our task force in Morton.

- Virg and Dee, real quick.

Moms for Liberty, are they anti-LGBTQ or anti-minority?

- [Dee] No.

- As, as a matter of fact, you won't find anybody in the organization.

Now there's 300 chapters, so you're gonna find a somebody who's off off the reservation, so to speak.

But, you know, we're not anti anybody.

- Excuse me, that was racist saying off the reservation, so.

- Guys, everybody, I'm gonna end it here On that note, we really are outta time.

I do wanna thank all four of you for coming in.

- Thank you.

- And having this debate.

It's healthy to talk about this.

We're talking about our kids, the most important thing in our world right now.

And we will revisit this issue again.

Thank you all again for your time.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

- Welcome back, I'm here with Phil Luciano.

Interesting and important topic, Phil.

When you were researching this, anything surprise you that you found out?

- What's really impressive is regardless of what you feel about this organization and the work they do, this way or that, it's impressive that it started less than three years ago.

And within two and a half years it got big enough, so influential that this was a driver with the Republican nominees for president.

They appeared at the summit for the group over the summer.

I mean, multiple, multiple candidates.

That just blew me away.

I'm like, wow, that's a quick rise.

So the point being you've got an issue that's important to you and you think it's well, it's just me and a few.

No, man, you can have a lot of sway still in America.

- Yeah, it'll be interesting to see where we go from here.

Let's talk about what's coming up next and that is, "You Gotta See This".

- One of the stories I think you'll like because you are the, you're the czar of the furry friends, yes?

- [Mark] Sure, yeah.

- And we've got a cat cafe and this is the first one in central Illinois.

And it, for a lot of people it sounds kind of weird because who wants to go to a cafe and hang out with cats?

Well you don't have to, but if you want to coffee and a sandwich with a cat, check it out.

- I know a lot of people that would.

Sounds interesting.

Gotta make sure your coffee is for free though.

- Yeah, yeah.

- All right, thanks very much for joining us, we appreciate it.

We are here every Thursday night.

"At Issue with Mark Welp" followed by "You Gotta See This".

Have a great night.

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